I'm not saying that writers aren't predisposed to biases toward certain characters more so than others. I know they are in certain cases, but I'm optimistic that a writer can be impartial about who they choose to win matches and view things strictly on the basis of how strong they thought an e-fedder's promos were the week of the match they're writing for them. I get that comparing two or more similarly skilled e-fedders blurs the lines a little bit, but I just really can't find it in me to believe that the head writer of a brand can read promos for an entire week and come away from it all incapable of distinguishing, separating, or singling out one elitist from the other in some way. The quality of one's promos can vary on a weekly basis, which is why the people generally considered the best promoers don't always win their matches. 

I feel like they would choose Jacob Senn because he's less experienced. He's a veteran by now who has been around the block, but the writers see guys like Jay, you, and I as established people who have already done everything. In the perception of writers, there's no way we can possibly exist on the same scale of a guy like Moonlight Predator in 2012, Xavier Williams in 2015, and even Cyclone in 2010/2011 which saw you personally experience the downside of being pigeonholed for your experience in a manner that completely disregards your talent and ability. They may not readily admit that, and they may not even know it, but I suspect that mentality is ingrained into a writer's subconscious at the very least. They want people with room for character development who have not "seen and done it all" so they can more easily hash out their own story arcs with that character. I feel that up-and-comers, rising stars and the like should be given opportunities, but also that people like us aren't deliberately given a more difficult time winning something by our writers strictly on the basis of our preexisting history.

E-fedding is fun for me only because I consider it a competition. I've said this before on many an occasion and I'll say it again now... I don't promo NOT to win. I don't promo NOT to win titles. I don't promo NOT to dominate. There's a small part of me that can see the logic in a character that wants to do that, a guy like Pizza Boy who is largely driven by the unique gimmick of his character, but my general rule in e-feds is that you should always want to win. Don't complain endlessly if you lose or approach a match as if your victory is a certainty, but always keep the desire to win unless involved in some sort of special circumstance like the aforementioned. I enjoy promoing against certain people more than others, but all of it is a byproduct of my competitive spirit.

Mr. DEDEDE wrote:

Aurora Rose wrote:

It would not bother me as long as the story was well-thought out and planned. There is a way to give people a losing streak without burying them. Cedric Alwxander had a magnificent storyline in ROH where he continually lost big matches, but it was booked in a way that he never looked like a shit competitor, just couldn't catch a break.

Or maybe TLA is right.

Not trying to argue one side against the other BUT if that Cedric storyline happened in EAW, how long before people start calling that person a jobber? Hell, how long do they start to call themselves a jobber? And how long before then do people begin to feel angry even if they feel angry FOR that person, because they're a talented competitive promoer but are still not being booked favorably?

A storyline like that requires attention to detail from the consumers. How much attention to detail is there from the EAW populous? I guarantee you there's at least a handful of people who think the Board of Directors are actually fired right now.

You can see where a person who's booked like that begins to feel like they're "wasting their time" for not winning the competition. It's easy for me or you to say that we prefer stories (I myself have said since 2008 that I'm here solely for the story) but our characters have had great fortune in our respective times here. What about someone who's as good as us but fails way more?

I'm not going to sit here and pretend like losing doesn't suck. It does, especially when you've put forth great effort. That's where good communication between writers and the people they write for comes in play. Kayfabing people is almost like an art, and trying to half-kayfabe people is difficult, but still possible if you know how to do it. If you're talking to the people you write for, and you're letting them know "Hey, I know things look rough now but trust me things will get better, this is all just part of the story" then they should be clear. And to be fair, losing streak storylines shouldn't be used very often and are only good for a certain type of person - typically one that's been with the fed for a while and doesn't mind putting his guy through a rough spot in order to progress his character. Every character has to go through some sort of hardship in order to be well-developed anyhow.

As far as the rest of the EAW populace is concerned - unless it's blatantly obvious how a story is going to go (certain stories telegraph their finish at the beginning and trying to change that ends up in Russo booking), they should be reserving all of their judgment until after the story has run its course so they can actually make a well informed decision on whether or not the person ended up buried. You don't necessarily get buried if you lose a lot, you get buried if your character never gets the resolution they needed - or gets it at the wrong time. It's on the individual for not doing what is required of them in an e-fed if they're not paying attention to detail. In my opinion, if you're not paying attention to shows and you're not at least reading some promos that don't involve your match - you know the type to scroll all the way down to the finish of their match to see if they won and then exit out - then that's like taking up writing music as a hobby without studying chord progressions, learning how to write melodies or even learning the definition of "music theory" and you just put a bunch of notation on staff paper and hope it's a good song... why are they even doing this to begin with?

Mr. DEDEDE wrote:

Aurora Rose wrote:

It would not bother me as long as the story was well-thought out and planned. There is a way to give people a losing streak without burying them. Cedric Alwxander had a magnificent storyline in ROH where he continually lost big matches, but it was booked in a way that he never looked like a shit competitor, just couldn't catch a break.

Or maybe TLA is right.

Not trying to argue one side against the other BUT if that Cedric storyline happened in EAW, how long before people start calling that person a jobber? Hell, how long do they start to call themselves a jobber? And how long before then do people begin to feel angry even if they feel angry FOR that person, because they're a talented competitive promoer but are still not being booked favorably?

A storyline like that requires attention to detail from the consumers. How much attention to detail is there from the EAW populous? I guarantee you there's at least a handful of people who think the Board of Directors are actually fired right now.

You can see where a person who's booked like that begins to feel like they're "wasting their time" for not winning the competition. It's easy for me or you to say that we prefer stories (I myself have said since 2008 that I'm here solely for the story) but our characters have had great fortune in our respective times here. What about someone who's as good as us but fails way more?

I'm not going to sit here and pretend like losing doesn't suck. It does, especially when you've put forth great effort. That's where good communication between writers and the people they write for comes in play. Kayfabing people is almost like an art, and trying to half-kayfabe people is difficult, but still possible if you know how to do it. If you're talking to the people you write for, and you're letting them know "Hey, I know things look rough now but trust me things will get better, this is all just part of the story" then they should be clear. And to be fair, losing streak storylines shouldn't be used very often and are only good for a certain type of person - typically one that's been with the fed for a while and doesn't mind putting his guy through a rough spot in order to progress his character. Every character has to go through some sort of hardship in order to be well-developed anyhow.

As far as the rest of the EAW populace is concerned - unless it's blatantly obvious how a story is going to go (certain stories telegraph their finish at the beginning and trying to change that ends up in Russo booking), they should be reserving all of their judgment until after the story has run its course so they can actually make a well informed decision on whether or not the person ended up buried. You don't necessarily get buried if you lose a lot, you get buried if your character never gets the resolution they needed - or gets it at the wrong time. It's on the individual for not doing what is required of them in an e-fed if they're not paying attention to detail. In my opinion, if you're not paying attention to shows and you're not at least reading some promos that don't involve your match - you know the type to scroll all the way down to the finish of their match to see if they won and then exit out - then that's like taking up writing music as a hobby without studying chord progressions, learning how to write melodies or even learning the definition of "music theory" and you just put a bunch of notation on staff paper and hope it's a good song... why are they even doing this to begin with?

Mr. DEDEDE wrote:

J Dynasty wrote:

It's both to me.

@DDD
To the Bray Wyatt thing, yeah I wouldn't be pleased about that.

To the subjectivity thing. It's not like you have the same writer all your career, plus its not like that writer has ultimate unquestioned control when that person is writer. Take for example if Norman happened to have had a  writer who thought he sucked and jobbed him out every week, you think the chairman-you-,the other writers or even the eaw members wouldn't start pressuring that writer or move Norman to another brand if Normans talents were being utterly wasted? Plus there are other ways to showcase the community saying which is a better promoers, people make threads all the time, there are MVEs and there are EAW awards. Yes there is subjectivity to it, but so is there for normal writers of books, people have to like your books or they won't be bought or become popular.

Great point.

HOWEVER this leads me to believe that popular vote is the best way, in that case. This is also a big reason why I want to make the end of the year awards a fed-wide voting based thing. Popular opinion/vote is far from perfect, and it does lack the personal attention to detail that maybe a small group of people deciding things might have; however the standards of "standing out" somewhat compensate for it, and the potential for personal bias playing a factor in deciding end of the year awards would be greatly reduced. The general public opinion, which is still subjective, would serve as a much more concrete answer. Or more reliable. Is that correct?

Well now we get into a question of what is the best source of opinion, a group of more so elites or everyone? Is Rotten Tomato and critics in the business better, or is it just people voting online?

Personally I believe the EAW board is the optimum source to decide winners of awards, and then other legends and great talents to decide tie breakers or other votes like we already do. To me when you do a efed wide voting it opens pandora's box, you mmight have people who were in the efed for one month decide something for a whole year, or people who are biased or people that others in EAW privately contact to vode for them. Let's not forget that one time where somehow Hass was wining the NE title poll despite just returning and being known for inconsistency, and RoV and I had to save the day.


I wouldn't cry or do anything if it was an efed wide thing, hell it might even help me considering how well I do in thread contests by the people and reps, but I just don't think its a good idea.

Mr. DEDEDE wrote:

J Dynasty wrote:

It's both to me.

@DDD
To the Bray Wyatt thing, yeah I wouldn't be pleased about that.

To the subjectivity thing. It's not like you have the same writer all your career, plus its not like that writer has ultimate unquestioned control when that person is writer. Take for example if Norman happened to have had a  writer who thought he sucked and jobbed him out every week, you think the chairman-you-,the other writers or even the eaw members wouldn't start pressuring that writer or move Norman to another brand if Normans talents were being utterly wasted? Plus there are other ways to showcase the community saying which is a better promoers, people make threads all the time, there are MVEs and there are EAW awards. Yes there is subjectivity to it, but so is there for normal writers of books, people have to like your books or they won't be bought or become popular.

Great point.

HOWEVER this leads me to believe that popular vote is the best way, in that case. This is also a big reason why I want to make the end of the year awards a fed-wide voting based thing. Popular opinion/vote is far from perfect, and it does lack the personal attention to detail that maybe a small group of people deciding things might have; however the standards of "standing out" somewhat compensate for it, and the potential for personal bias playing a factor in deciding end of the year awards would be greatly reduced. The general public opinion, which is still subjective, would serve as a much more concrete answer. Or more reliable. Is that correct?

Well now we get into a question of what is the best source of opinion, a group of more so elites or everyone? Is Rotten Tomato and critics in the business better, or is it just people voting online?

Personally I believe the EAW board is the optimum source to decide winners of awards, and then other legends and great talents to decide tie breakers or other votes like we already do. To me when you do a efed wide voting it opens pandora's box, you mmight have people who were in the efed for one month decide something for a whole year, or people who are biased or people that others in EAW privately contact to vode for them. Let's not forget that one time where somehow Hass was wining the NE title poll despite just returning and being known for inconsistency, and RoV and I had to save the day.


I wouldn't cry or do anything if it was an efed wide thing, hell it might even help me considering how well I do in thread contests by the people and reps, but I just don't think its a good idea.

Mr. DEDEDE wrote:

TWO SIDES OF DEVILS ADVOCATE:

To those who say its more of a hobby than a competition to them, if that's the case, what if you were booked like Bray Wyatt where you're put into interesting storylines but lose in every single one of them for like two straight years and go without a singles title (even if it helps other peoples careers) Isn't there a point where the competitive aspect creeps on you and begin to feel slighted?

Well speaking as someone who has been booked like that for years, I honestly say that no it does not. I mean do I occasionally want to win a title? sure I do. But lets be honest im no stat padding person whos only argument to why I am a good efedder is the fact that I have a list of belts won. I have been in some of the greatest storylines EAW has had over the years, from the LSa/RoViper match. To battling Cy, to the "Him" storyline that came along with beating Alloy. To coming back and stealing Vipers belt, to even my retirement last year against TJ. All interesting, all audience captivating, and honestly thats why I consider my Hall Of Fame career worth while. And honestly, id rather be booked like Bray Wyatt any day than to be booked like a HHH from back in the day where the title has to revolve around me 24/7. See which of the two has the better gimmick? See whos got better promos? I rest my own personal case. Its a hobby site, you want competition? Be like Lochy and get your ass in a ring. Otherwise enjoy it for what it is, a stress relieving hobby rather than an outlet to try and show off to everybody that your "better than them 24/7".

No offense, you're my friend KD. But I find it HIGHLY dubious that you'd rather be like Bray Wyatt than HHH in the old days. You've always loved winning and trying to get titles in efeds, no offense again but I really think that's just you saying that now because of how your EAW career turned out and you're trying to live with it.

Well allow me to retort with this fact and this fact alone. When I was writer, I never once put any title upon myself, and not once had myself in any title match. Sure along the line after months and months I was going to have myself face the champion, but not without a nice storyline to go with the whole thing. So no im not just trying to "cope with it", because I had more left last year and could have gone for a title seriously if I wanted to. Chose not to though.

Basically what Demon and Carlos said. Between the two of them they basically answered it for me.

I try to treat it as a hobby but I growing up playing sports n shit I've turned it into a competition. At least when it comes to my current place in the fed; eventually the competitive side to this will be shelved and I'll just be happy with whatever. When I reach the point I've set myself, then I won't care until then I'll be competitive as fook.

I think it's both, but more so a competition because some people get butt hurt when someone says they can out promo them. 

Honestly, even though I am new here and all, I treat this as more of a hobby. But, maybe over time, it'll be more competitive. But until then, I'm just going to kick back and be content.

Nothing matters as much as EAW does. If you think something is more important, I don't want to hear you ever say shit about EAW. Your opinion is invalid. I put my fucking life into this, and for some half-asser to come in here and say "this shit doesn't really matter, it's just an efed" your fuckin funeral is gonna come one day and I'll say "this shit doesn't really matter it's just a funeral of an EAW underachiever."

Chucky P. wrote:

Nothing matters as much as EAW does. If you think something is more important, I don't want to hear you ever say shit about EAW. Your opinion is invalid. I put my fucking life into this, and for some half-asser to come in here and say "this shit doesn't really matter, it's just an efed" your fuckin funeral is gonna come one day and I'll say "this shit doesn't really matter it's just a funeral of an EAW underachiever."

Lol calm down

No one was saying anything bad. I did say that I was new, so it has become more of a hobby. Down the road, it'll be more than time. I'm starting to get used to this place. And so far, I do love this place.

PRETTY PINK, BABY BLUEEEE, WHY DONT, WHY DONT YOU TEACH ME SOMETHING NEWWWW?!?!

(bump)

WARNING: Unnecessarily long Candle rant time.

I usually come into a fed just wanting to write a story down in a serialized format from week to week.  I never write ahead, unless it's to storyboard things out a little bit with a skeleton of a timeline with one sentenced 'chapter' ideas I suppose you'd call it for each week I'm booked.  The rest is total stream of consciousness.

  Lately I've come to the conclusion that it's a bit selfish, especially if you neglect an opponent (In which case, they'll eat you alive here).  I've tried not to map too many ideas out for PB because, yeah writing's a hobby, but the purpose of it here is competition.  I think you can still weave storytelling elements into that mentality and it can benefit you as a fleshed out character while also making sense of what you say, how you say it, and what your vibe is.  The idea should be to win from week-to-week and not flake out on your opponent entirely with self-indulgence, which is admittedly something I've done in e-fedding in the past (and maybe even some these days depending on your definition of self-indulgent writing.)  There's also the writers to worry about.  Showdown in '17 has a different idea of what I should be than Showdown in '16 did, and I try to honor that image that the writers have constructed in their narrative as much as possible, which must mean I'm trying to catch their eye and impress them so it has to be viewed as a competitive tactic.

   With all of that being said if people are crying or leaving over losing a match that they don't think they should have lost or losing a title then they're really taking things entirely too seriously.  I get the idea of wanting to be appreciated, but EAW is a big place with multiple vast rosters of talented people.  There are no Hulk Hogans here.  Also, sometimes the writers have an idea in mind booking wise to make a small loss pan out as a huge win down the road.  Either that or you're just not a good writer, in which case instead of belly aching you should push yourself, ask advice from a very open community of awesome writers, and strive to do better.

So yeah, it's a competitive hobby.  You should be here to tell a story and write something entertaining to you.  If you're not, then you should look into trying to gain that mindset.  Usually it's that creative mindset that thrives and succeeds here.  Then again, sometimes it bites you in the ass if you get too wrapped up in your own B.S.

Hobby

Hobby

Just something to fill my spare time. I don't think I would say it a hobby. I like writing, though and efedding might be just one of them.

I have go with it being down the middle. Like Candle Said, a competitive hobby.

simply put, I'm here to be the best, but I love you all and want to all grow as a community even further than we already have. I take this seriously because I've put so much into this and I've been doing this for going on 7 years now. But I realize starting flame wars and shit over a match result or storyline direction is childish and won't get me what I want from this. If anything it would only bring down the mood of myself and all those around me. And of course my aim is to connect more, not distance myself away. I'd say my competitive edge only shows itself during FPVs or key matches, but not to the point where I'll say something I might regret.

Both. I love writing, competition, tabletop RPG's and I'm a huge wrestling fan and there are people here willing to write shows with the characters we make and put all this together and well, as a fan of all these things why wouldn't I take advantage of it. My life will always take a priority and sometimes my competitiveness gets the better of me but ultimately I remind myself that I do this for fun and nothing else.

I basically feel the same way as IMP.