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 The intangibles of promoing

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The Elite-Lord
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PostSubject: The intangibles of promoing   July 10th 2014, 10:31 am

What makes a "great promo" to you?

I've always found it fascinating that people can look at a promo but can't exactly pick it apart and explain why they find it as a great/good/bad or whatever adjective you want to affiliate here. So I'm asking you to go above and beyond that here. Most people just simply look at promo quality based off how well they can insult their opponent or how big of a game they can talk up in a one-on-one battle.

But for me... there are a lot of good promos/good promoers out there, so you're have to do a little more than that to get the "great" status. For example... I think if someone's personality is often chill at chats or what have you, but they promo like a completely different person (with quality of course), then I tend to consider it a great promo due to surreal feel to it.

Another example is when someone actually promo up to their gimmick or status in scripts. If someone in script is on a four match losing streak, I'm sorry, if you promo as if you're still the greatest thing since sliced bread, no, far from "great" status. If someone's gimmick is that of a super babyface that can do wrong, but ends up drinking all the time in their promo, while going on slurring and insulting their opponent out the door, again, far from a good promo.

The ability to play up to script, become a character you're completely not, and play the gimmick to a tee are all examples of "intangibles" of promoing. I guess what I'm trying to ask here, is, do intangibles add to what makes a great promo to you? If not, what does? There's obviously more than just the intangibles, but in particular, what do you look for when deciding what makes a promo great or otherwise?
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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 10th 2014, 10:37 am

- When a promoer answers all the "yeah buts" that makes it harder for you to counter his points and to come up with something new

- Yes, insulting and making your opponent feel like utter shit is a part of great promoing ability. It's actually what makes it challenging and fun to read in the first place

- Immense ability to capitalize on your wins

- Recovering from tough losses and getting back to the game

- Promoing like the person that you really are, it means you are comfortable sitting in your own shoes
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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 10th 2014, 10:42 am

I actually have to disagree with a minor part of your post there. Insulting your opponent is far from challenging. It's quite easy to throw out insults at your opponent, because they don't even have to have merit behind them.

Definitely a part of what makes a great promo is talking up a good game, but insulting... I don't know about that. Can be hit or miss, and people are generally too vague with it.



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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 10th 2014, 10:49 am

Lannister wrote:
I actually have to disagree with a minor part of your post there. Insulting your opponent is far from challenging. It's quite easy to throw out insults at your opponent, because they don't even have to have merit behind them.

Definitely a part of what makes a great promo is talking up a good game, but insulting... I don't know about that. Can be hit or miss, and people are generally too vague with it.
What I meant by "challenging" is to promo back on it. There are a lot of promoers out who don't insult you in their promos, its like I don't know… they are just spitting out random stuff like about themselves or whatever.  The people who take offensive side and try to rape me on my weakest sides are my biggest enemies, which is kinda of my style honestly
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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 10th 2014, 10:56 am

- Being able to continuously giving each other something to work with so it makes things more entertaining and also makes your promos more fluid rather than feeling forced

- Make your character connect with yourself and how you really are. Pretty much the same with most RPG games like The Elder Scrolls. I feel if you are able to do that, you are able to do anything you want with your character instead of relying on one solitary gimmick.

- Trying to shy away from being repetitive. I understand by hammering in a point but it gets to the point where you are repeating yourself way too much about something from the past or the same lines over and over gets tiresome and not many people can work with someone who is like that. I know from experience.

- Growth. What I mean by that is in your promos from months or weeks from the last one always show that you have grew. I'm not saying by using bigger and complex words but as in the quality in promo and how you start off or end. Win or losing you can have the opportunity to show that you character has grew into something better or possibly more wicked. But on the flip side don't always use simple words, try to upgrade it a little bit like find the balance of use of very complex words or small baby like words .

- Emotion. I feel like you don't always have to use caps to show that when you are yelling or have strong feelings about something. Sure that may help some but it's not really needed. That's where word diction comes into play and show through your words that you show your opponents or writers that you are expressing that you are enraged, or upset or whatever emotion you are portraying.



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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 10th 2014, 11:00 am

Lannister wrote:
If someone in script is on a four match losing streak, I'm sorry, if you promo as if you're still the greatest thing since sliced bread, no, far from "great" status.
I disagree with that. Especially if you're a heel. I've always found it great when someone is doing so bad yet they continue to hype themselves up as being better than everyone else, I've found it both ironic and entertaining.
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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 10th 2014, 11:03 am

The Black Reaper wrote:


- Trying to shy away from being repetitive. I understand by hammering in a point but it gets to the point where you are repeating yourself way too much about something from the past or the same lines over and over gets tiresome and not many people can work with someone who is like that. I know from experience.
I disagree. It really depends. Say you make a point and he responds to it and gives you nothing new to work with then its not your fault for bringing it back again. Also there is a difference between just saying "You lost to this guy" and "you lost to this guy because of this blah blah blah"


Last edited by Moonlight Predator on July 10th 2014, 11:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 10th 2014, 11:05 am

Scott Diamond wrote:
Lannister wrote:
If someone in script is on a four match losing streak, I'm sorry, if you promo as if you're still the greatest thing since sliced bread, no, far from "great" status.
I disagree with that. Especially if you're a heel. I've always found it great when someone is doing so bad yet they continue to hype themselves up as being better than everyone else, I've found it both ironic and entertaining.

Well, in that particular situation, it can be hit or miss. But that can get repetitive rather quickly, and not to mention it's a bit of a cop out. We've seen that script before. Not saying that it can't produce great promos with that mentality, I'm just saying that route has a bigger percentage of just being plain and dull.



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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 10th 2014, 11:07 am

Lannister wrote:
Scott Diamond wrote:
Lannister wrote:
If someone in script is on a four match losing streak, I'm sorry, if you promo as if you're still the greatest thing since sliced bread, no, far from "great" status.
I disagree with that. Especially if you're a heel. I've always found it great when someone is doing so bad yet they continue to hype themselves up as being better than everyone else, I've found it both ironic and entertaining.

Well, in that particular situation, it can be hit or miss. But that can get repetitive rather quickly, and not to mention it's a bit of a cop out. We've seen that script before. Not saying that it can't produce great promos with that mentality, I'm just saying that route has a bigger percentage of just being plain and dull.
It depends what were the reasons for your loss. And saying overused stuff like "I have changed and now I am better" isn't really better either  :shrug:
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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 10th 2014, 11:08 am

Moonlight Predator wrote:
The Black Reaper wrote:


- Trying to shy away from being repetitive. I understand by hammering in a point but it gets to the point where you are repeating yourself way too much about something from the past or the same lines over and over gets tiresome and not many people can work with someone who is like that. I know from experience.
I disagree. It really depends. Say you make a point and he responds to it and gives you nothing new to work with then its not your fault for bringing it back again. Also there is a difference between just saying "You lost to this guy" and "you lost to this guy because of this blah blah blah"
You don't have to always counter that statement. Actually it would fall on you because to me if that has ever happened I failed to give that person something to work with which is why he or she is being repetitive. But if I have gave that person something to work with then find a way to say it again in a different way or just make a little comment about it and just end it at that. Like C Los has taught me you don't always have to be in debate mode to just get your points across.



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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 10th 2014, 11:10 am

Moonlight Predator wrote:
Lannister wrote:
Scott Diamond wrote:
Lannister wrote:
If someone in script is on a four match losing streak, I'm sorry, if you promo as if you're still the greatest thing since sliced bread, no, far from "great" status.
I disagree with that. Especially if you're a heel. I've always found it great when someone is doing so bad yet they continue to hype themselves up as being better than everyone else, I've found it both ironic and entertaining.

Well, in that particular situation, it can be hit or miss. But that can get repetitive rather quickly, and not to mention it's a bit of a cop out. We've seen that script before. Not saying that it can't produce great promos with that mentality, I'm just saying that route has a bigger percentage of just being plain and dull.
It depends what were the reasons for your loss. And saying overused stuff like "I have changed and now I am better" isn't really better either  :shrug:

That's part of the intangible though, to just not write the same script, either it be continuous self-praise or changing for the better nonsense.
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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 10th 2014, 11:14 am

The Black Reaper wrote:
Moonlight Predator wrote:
The Black Reaper wrote:


- Trying to shy away from being repetitive. I understand by hammering in a point but it gets to the point where you are repeating yourself way too much about something from the past or the same lines over and over gets tiresome and not many people can work with someone who is like that. I know from experience.
I disagree. It really depends. Say you make a point and he responds to it and gives you nothing new to work with then its not your fault for bringing it back again. Also there is a difference between just saying "You lost to this guy" and "you lost to this guy because of this blah blah blah"
You don't have to always counter that statement. Actually it would fall on you because to me if that has ever happened I failed to give that person something to work with which is why he or she is being repetitive. But if I have gave that person something to work with then find a way to say it again in a different way or just make a little comment about it and just end it at that. Like C Los has taught me you don't always have to be in debate mode to just get your points across.

Eh if I am the person that starting the promo war and I make a point, why is it my fault that nothing else new popped out in our conversation? I can easily say its your downfall because apart from responding to what I said, you have nothing else to say to me. Of course there are a lot of people who can get really repetitive, but you can't be vague about the topic, you have to be really specific and give a particular situation
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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 10th 2014, 11:17 am

Lannister wrote:
Moonlight Predator wrote:
Lannister wrote:
Scott Diamond wrote:
Lannister wrote:
If someone in script is on a four match losing streak, I'm sorry, if you promo as if you're still the greatest thing since sliced bread, no, far from "great" status.
I disagree with that. Especially if you're a heel. I've always found it great when someone is doing so bad yet they continue to hype themselves up as being better than everyone else, I've found it both ironic and entertaining.

Well, in that particular situation, it can be hit or miss. But that can get repetitive rather quickly, and not to mention it's a bit of a cop out. We've seen that script before. Not saying that it can't produce great promos with that mentality, I'm just saying that route has a bigger percentage of just being plain and dull.
It depends what were the reasons for your loss. And saying overused stuff like "I have changed and now I am better" isn't really better either  :shrug:

That's part of the intangible though, to just not write the same script, either it be continuous self-praise or changing for the better nonsense.

I am just saying, I can't really blame those people for what they are doing because making a GOOD comeback from these kind of losses is really hard. You always want to make yourself look good in one way or the other, because otherwise how will you ever win a match against somebody?
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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 10th 2014, 11:18 am

Moonlight Predator wrote:
The Black Reaper wrote:
Moonlight Predator wrote:
The Black Reaper wrote:


- Trying to shy away from being repetitive. I understand by hammering in a point but it gets to the point where you are repeating yourself way too much about something from the past or the same lines over and over gets tiresome and not many people can work with someone who is like that. I know from experience.
I disagree. It really depends. Say you make a point and he responds to it and gives you nothing new to work with then its not your fault for bringing it back again. Also there is a difference between just saying "You lost to this guy" and "you lost to this guy because of this blah blah blah"
You don't have to always counter that statement. Actually it would fall on you because to me if that has ever happened I failed to give that person something to work with which is why he or she is being repetitive. But if I have gave that person something to work with then find a way to say it again in a different way or just make a little comment about it and just end it at that. Like C Los has taught me you don't always have to be in debate mode to just get your points across.

Eh if I am the person that starting the promo war and I make a point, why is it my fault that nothing else new popped out in our conversation? I can easily say its your downfall because apart from responding to what I said, you have nothing else to say to me. Of course there are a lot of people who can get really repetitive, but you can't be vague about the topic, you have to be really specific and give a particular situation
True true, but in the same sense give that person multiple things they can grab on and hook on to, even if they are not the best promoer out there. But if they failed to do that then find something they said and hook on to it. Most of the time things can get picked up from there.



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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 10th 2014, 11:26 am

Moonlight Predator wrote:
Lannister wrote:
Moonlight Predator wrote:
Lannister wrote:
Scott Diamond wrote:
Lannister wrote:
If someone in script is on a four match losing streak, I'm sorry, if you promo as if you're still the greatest thing since sliced bread, no, far from "great" status.
I disagree with that. Especially if you're a heel. I've always found it great when someone is doing so bad yet they continue to hype themselves up as being better than everyone else, I've found it both ironic and entertaining.

Well, in that particular situation, it can be hit or miss. But that can get repetitive rather quickly, and not to mention it's a bit of a cop out. We've seen that script before. Not saying that it can't produce great promos with that mentality, I'm just saying that route has a bigger percentage of just being plain and dull.
It depends what were the reasons for your loss. And saying overused stuff like "I have changed and now I am better" isn't really better either  :shrug:

That's part of the intangible though, to just not write the same script, either it be continuous self-praise or changing for the better nonsense.

I am just saying, I can't really blame those people for what they are doing because making a GOOD comeback from these kind of losses is really hard. You always want to make yourself look good in one way or the other, because otherwise how will you ever win a match against somebody?

There's a difference between still proving your worth and what we're talking about right now. Because, my original post, it can conflict itself depending on how you look at it. Your gimmick can be just purely an arrogant guy, so anything but hyping one's self up doesn't make sense. But the scenario we're talking about now is an exact case, which obviously changes the topic completely and getting the original point off track. But if we're speaking in general, I'd tend to believe that changing your mindset and style to adapt what's going on script can generally lead to not only better promos, but better story telling in the actual storyline itself.
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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 10th 2014, 2:08 pm

Sometimes your promos, like your character, should be an extension of who you are. You gotta know yourself if you want to play a character well. Even when Methuselah isnt close to who I am irl, his beliefs are things I think about and consider sometimes which helped fuel the fire. 

Make the shit relevant too. 

and interesting. captivating to read. Idk. Think outside the box is probably the best bet.

Great thread tho Ken, I agree with what you said in ur OP. I guess the case is diff for some people when they lose. I made my character take pride on admitting when you're truly defeated and brushing off petty losses that have no value to the war. As long as that's being done consistently then I feel it's a huge part of bounce-back promos. Some of my favorite promos I read are promos after losses, in fact I usually read a persons promo after a big loss more than any other time to see where they can muster up confidence.
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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 10th 2014, 2:52 pm

I look for if their message is consistent throughout the promo, fits their character and if it properly conveys a message at all. The more interesting and standout the promo is in of itself the better as well. Also if it's accurate, I don't mean by opinions but actual facts, like if it looks like you actually know what has gone on in scripts that you're talking about, I always thought it was kinda dumb when people bring up things they obviously don't know about when promoing.



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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 10th 2014, 7:44 pm

making the other promoer better
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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 10th 2014, 9:57 pm

CollarJohn wrote:
making the other promoer better
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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 11th 2014, 4:15 am

People automatically think out-dissing your opponent makes a great promo. I believe character development is essential in great promos. You have to truly build yourself up to be interesting.

I believe I'm finally starting to do that now.





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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 11th 2014, 5:03 am

Out do your opponent.
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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 11th 2014, 7:10 am

The best promos are the ones that are succinct and to the point.

A lengthy promo is not a good promo.

A wordy promo is not a good promo.

A try-hard promo is not good promo.

Say what needs to be said and move on.

Oh, and be original.


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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   July 11th 2014, 12:36 pm

Um my thing on "originality" is that nobody can be completely original. Everyone has gotten their gimmick from someone or from something. But anyways my thing is with originality, it's one of my biggest pet peeves when I read people's promos that talks about it. Like to me I think that doesn't help anyone with anything talking about in your promos. For one I think it's a major cliche , for two I just think it's overused a lot and three part of me feels like it's on the verge of being in character and out of character depending how you word it.



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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   August 19th 2015, 1:21 am

The best promos are the ones that challenge your opponent to be better. You can write a kickass promo, but once the promo war begins, what do you have left on your 2nd or 3rd promo? A good promoer will tear you apart with their response and you better build on your previous promo or start hitting new ideas. A great promo will make the good promoers really think on their response and the bad promoers just close their laptop.

aka don't be repetitive in your promo wars.
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PostSubject: Re: The intangibles of promoing   August 19th 2015, 1:34 am

Some really great points and advice here. I know I am new here but I really want to try and be original and I think some of the advice here will definitely help me do that.

I think my first big worry was "People write essays for most of their promos" but these comments have made me feel a little less intimidated by the amount some people seem to write Smile

Many thanks Smile




        
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